THE FAB 5 FREDDY DEBATE CONTINUES

Revok recently pulled Fab 5 Freddy’s card calling him a biter and a fraud (check Revok’s blog post HERE). This accusation has drew a line in the sand with people opposing and supporting Fred’s work.

Today I received this harshly retarded email from Holland’s Shoe aka Niels Shoe Meulman…

In this email Shoe talks of the good ol’ days in NYC and how it’s all supposed to be. How MSK style graffiti is wack and how we should all bow down to his expansive knowledge of graffiti…

Why Fab 5 Freddy deserves his check before Sever gets his
By Shoe CIA.

Any graffiti writer that didn’t bomb trains in New York during the 70’s and 80’s should shut the fuck up. Period.
Everybody in the culture knows this.

I realize it’s somewhat of a paradox whilst writing this, but when I read this lame attack on graffiti icon Fab 5 Freddy by Revok I was too tempted to break this unwritten law.

In New York, in the the 80’s, there was graffiti and there was hip hop culture. They were one. Futura was hanging out with The Clash, Keith Haring was designing record sleeves for Malcolm McLaren and Blondie sang “Fab Five Freddie told me everybody’s fly, DJ’s spinning I said my, my. Flash is fast, Flash is cool. Francois sais pas, Flashe no deux. Nobody knew what that meant (still don’t) but it did made the world spin faster. Dondi did the video for Buffalo Gals and the rest is history.

About ten years later, kids in Germany and Califonia got the message (partly) and started to do their ‘awesome’ letter styles.

Catch my drift? That airbrushy-fantasy nonsense is going nowhere. When Bando and I where concentrating on the basics of letters and rocking silvers all across Europe, these soon-to-be graffiti fascists were still in diapers.

So, let it be known that when kings like Futura and Lee decide to do a show with Fab Five Freddy you have only one thing to do.
Bow down.

NSM

ps.
That suggestion of bitten letters has no foundation whatsoever.
———–

(below) The Exchange book

My response to Shoe

Niels,

You are completely out of line sending this response out and attacking our work to justify your claims. If our work is “airbrushy-fantasy nonsense that goes nowhere” why did you ask to have our work in your gallery? And why did you come down to LA pushing to collaborate with our crew / Known Gallery in some fashion? Shame on you and your out of touch idea of what graffiti is.

Your idea of this magical hip hop rainbow over New York City during the 70’s and 80’s can only be believed by a naive European like yourself. I’m from New York, born there, lived there, and started writing there. My idea of graffiti and the people that do it is not some sort of distant fantasy, that was by chance packaged in a digestable way, and exported to my town. It was happening and was not as sacred and pure as you make it out to be. Anyone is open to being called out for direct plagiarism. There is nothing sacred or divine about so called hip hop or those who peddle it to the world.

You’re from the countryside of Holland. You happened to go to a Dondi art show in the 80’s, copied that style and you’re now trying to claim it as your own? I was never influenced by you or Bando whatsoever. Credit Dondi’s canvas work before your own, and even then you are still out of the loop going 20+ years. You have an outsiders view about graffiti post 1989 and have lost any true understanding of lettering style, trends, or concepts; so your opinion is worthless.

(Below) Fab 5 Freddy steals a Yes 2 “Y” and an “S” & “E” from Sever out of The Exchange book

(Below) Aroe, Sever, & Yes 2, Los Angeles,2007. Notice the Yes 2 “Y”

Despite our differences in opinion here are the facts:

Fab 5 Freddy helped to bring graffiti and Hip Hop into the mainstream with “Wildstyle”, music act tie-ins, and hosting Yo MTV Raps. Not really a writer himself, he did hang around with a lot of notable writers and helped to make shit happen. I grew up watching him introduce music videos and respect his contributions. Just like you Neils, Fab 5 Freddy is completely out of touch with modern graffiti. This would be okay if not for his attempts at making art out of current peoples art.

Fact: Creating art for the Three Kings art show, Fab 5 Freddy took a copy of The Exchange book, cut out pieces in the book, poorly collaged them together and ran them through generic filters in photoshop. From there he digitally printed it all onto canvas. The work cut out from the book was used as the centerpiece within each printed canvas. No mention of The Exchange book, the writers work he used or anything related was given by Fab 5 Freddy. Besides Sever, Freddy used parts of a Yes 2 piece done in Los Angeles in 2007, Rime / Bates exchange piece done in Sweden in 2008, an Aroe / Sever exchange piece done in LA in 2007, and others.

(Below) Another Fab 5 Freddy piece using a Rime exchange piece cut out from The Exchange book

(Below) Rime/ Bates exchange painted in Malmo Sweden in 2008.

This would be cool if he knew whose work he was using, gave credit and explained his intentions. As far as I know he has done none of that and most likely wouldn’t know where to begin.

Joe

——–

and
Revok’s response to Shoe

Shoe,

Eventually you & I will meet face to face, when we do PLEASE tell me to “shut the fuck up”

R.

143 thoughts on “THE FAB 5 FREDDY DEBATE CONTINUES

  1. Damn right. I havent been into this game long and i can totally see that was a blatant bite. anyone who understands can see that those are the exact letters posted on. no mention of any artists work being borrowed was mentioned so i dont get what the fuck he’s saying when you clearly see the truth infront of you. I thinks its a case of a liar not wanting to be seen as a liar.

  2. That is a very well written, composed and factual response Joe! The images are there, clear as day, and he has been called out for what he’s done, point final!
    When starting out in the magical world of writing, i was very impressed and influenced by both SHOE and BANDO (growing up on the german border w france further emphasized this) n remember aweingly scrutinizing every piece i could get my eyes on in the 1TOX magazine – but this response by SHOE made me lose alot of respect for him; standing up and defending clear cut plagiarism is just retarded. Anyway, good for you and REVOK for telling things like they are. Yo.
    Tare.

  3. It’s so clearcut, someone who’s not even a writer would be able to see the plagiarism. Good response Rime, I like Revoks though.

  4. The Soup Car wallpapered canvas above with the Rime/Bates Exchange bit has the entire piece Sever produced for Aroe just minus the E just rotated counter clockwise 90 degrees. Lazy.

  5. Damn shame. First rule in college is no plagiarism, whether it be graphic design or english. It’s a basic rule of ethics. Give Credit. Plain and simple. I think if that’s his style, to pull and mix n match and collage, so be it. Just give credit.

  6. Hmm, people might argue, but talking shit on Shoe is fucking bullshit, he is one of the first big writers in Europe. He wrote together with Quik, Bando and other legends.
    Please do a bit of research before YOU start yelling random shit about someone.

    Ps; he still writes

    • And that`s an excuse to talk BULLSHIT? Grachtengordelgraffiti bullcrap! Respect for what he has done but this guy always had that air problem.

    • u dumb ass, i recognize Shoe’s work and i know he deserves his place, but if u say that he is that good, then you also should say that a biter is a biter and deserves no respect for that, stealing another borthers hustle? plus, complainin and bitchin, disrespecting people’s work?! after asking for a colab with the seventh letter crew?????!!!!!! tho, ya sleep?! you talking bullshit on this blog, stay out.

    • I saw this Shoe guys work and instantly thought of how silly it is that he is trying to rock a “Calligraffiti” Style and stamp that shit as his own.. when I first saw it literally reminded me of MSK and Atlas the real OG “Calligraffiti” writers. Shoe just happened to catch his 15 min of fame while trying to be an Upper Crusty Douche and pretendin like his shit is original while mouthin off to Writers that make me proud to be American haha. Revok, Jersey Joe and MSK have done allot for writers, and have heavily influenced the world of Graff. For one, Shoe is one to talk about “airbrushy” style when he has to bite old english letters and has been trying to pass himself off as an originator of “Calligraffiti” the name itself is more “airbrushy fantasy” bullshit if I’ve ever heard it myself. This is AMERICA and he don’t know JACK SHIT about it! US of FUCKIN A is an always will be the birth place of Graffiti and every other Hip Hop element that these Euro Wankstah wannabes act like they know. On to the next.. The main point is he talks mad shit for biting letters after his supposed long career of being “up” in Europe but he can’t even take a original shit in a toilet after that many years? Thats fuckin pathetic..I love Graff & I have mad respect for real Writers….blah blah blah..I love you, you dirty dirty whores..

  7. haha what lame toy that niels shoe …… take fab fives dick outa ya mouth….hahha

    haha revok do ya thhaaang

  8. what a useless cunt. steals his art from respectable and great artists…. the least he could of done was make it look half decent.

  9. Sure, when I was a french teenager, I was impressed by the style of Shoe in the 90′. But it’s not enough. Famous doesn’t mean wise, or smart. Everybody knows that graffiti have no rules, just facts. And in this case facts and pictures say the truth : Revok is right and Shoe is sooooo wrong ! No respect for Fab 5 Freddy after that. And no respect for Shoe to. If you want respect, forget galleries and go back to work dude…

  10. Pingback: MSK Crew vs. Fab 5 Freddie & Niels 'Shoe' Meulman | hypes are us / hypesrus.com

  11. WTF.
    Bow down for Fab5 ,Futura and Lee..
    Ok Lee is cool and real..Futura is a posing wannabe art fool who never did shit,exept for his one whole car published in the book,and Fab 5.zero..that toy never even did a train at all..so fuck that..
    I ll give more credit to Sever then to those posers from NY…the real NY bombers never goy any attention in the films and books…FUZZ..PART…JESTER..IN… IZ..etc

    • Sorry bruh. Futura had more than one car and he had insides as well. He quit in his prime due to a tragic incident involving one of his crew mates getting burned by the 3rd rail and the controversy the followed. Study your history before you diss. Please.

      • Ok Ok ,I was a little hard on Futura,but my point is that none of those guys exept LEE deserve to be called king,especially when there is about 1000 other writers who would deserve that title more then Futura or fab 5,,Doc tc5 for example,you did some fresh stuff bruh..
        Peace im out of here..

  12. It is clear that Shoe has no idea what he is talking about, despite being a well respected writer in Europe his comments on ‘Hip Hop’ and ‘Graffiti’ are utter bullshit and he is contradicting himself. All the people he mentions are cool with me in terms of exposing the movement and making it mainstream but are basically ‘Culture Vultures’. Feeding on it’s bones to make a name and money for themselves.

    Futura was in the army when writing really developed and he decided to start again as basically an old man. As far as I am concerned neither he or Fab 5 Fraudulent ‘bombed’ trains as they painted what one car each? Keith Haring never bombed a train as far as I know and every one knows Malcolm Mclaren is the worlds greatest cultural thief, that was his whole schtick. Blondie are a great New Wave band but doing one song referencing what was happening in the Bronx does not make you a Hip Hop icon.

    Basically in Hip hop and Graffiti biting is forbidden and that is what Fab 5 has done so Shoe needs to ‘Shut the Fuck Up’. Or what next? Writing a letter to Grandmaster Caz telling him to STFU about Sugarhill stealing his rhymes for Rappers Delight?

  13. Fuck Shoe and Fab 5 Freddy, the fist one hasn’t done shit for ages and the second one is a faker who’s lucky enough to have been there from the start. Fred never was a writer to begin with, only thing i remember is that crappy Campbell soup can piece. But yet Shoe and Freddy are the first ones to apear when there’s something to be told about the scene, good to see people telling it like it really is.

  14. I rarely comment or contribute in graffiti discussions. But I had to reply in this one.

    first off, it makes me ashamed to be from Amsterdam and see Shoe’s reply. The guy (even though he’s on of my youth heroes. And a true european graffiti pioneer) made some bullshit statements. The biting is obviously, everybody see’s that. Secondly, the statements he made about the so-called “msk” style are way out of line, just like you said. Personally, Im not always a fan of what you guys are doing, . But I respect others opinion and taste about style and lettering. And I like you guys sense of humour. (:

    Secondly, I know Rime is American and most visitors will probably be American, but still, people, please learn some history, before calling Shoe a toy, an idiot, or whatsoever. The guy made more impact on this whole culture than you probably ever will do.

    and last but not least. Revok should grow up, he accuses someone of biting (whether this is true or not). Get’s a harsh reply back (again, it doesnt matter if the statements in the reply are true or not), and immediately jumps in school-yard-thug-modus. Grow up man, how old are you? Do you really need to act like this to justify what you’ve said? If you know you’re right, why even bother replying. And if you really feel the need to reply. do it like adults do, with well stated arguments. Grow up.

  15. What can I say…SHOE and his crewmates made me fuckin’ ejaculate in the 80’s. But I’ m slowly reaching the point of no return where my admiration voor SHOE will be flushed down the toilet for real. His denail of the fact there were sooo many talented writers in Holland outside of Amsterdam already been buggin’ me for years…..as does his high & mighty attitude.

    Niels should realize he had a lot of momentum at that point in time….the fact he and his boys lived in the direct surroundings of the first graffiti exposition in Amsterdam….the fact his folks had crazy cash and supported his hobby…the fact he ran into BANDO in Paris. It wasn’ t just your mighty skills Niels that brought you all the fame. Hell….JOKER USA owned your ass stylewise but lacked graffiti entrepeneurism I guess.

    Trust me…a LOT of writers in even Holland think like this.

    You would be a definite icon within the international graffiti scene if you weren’ t such a asshole.

    Your writing on this subject of Fab5 isn’ t holy scripture…it’ s far from that…it lacks good motivation and certain statements are simply laughable.

    Go do some typography and shut the fuck up….

  16. Cant happen to actually like the old pieces from Shoe indeed very much, but knowadays more known for his other thing in lettering…
    But knowadays pieces since ever from Revok are that highly flamable that I do like his pieces more! Even more then that awesome style from wayback…

    I would ask both of you: Battle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  17. Shoe shut tha fuck you Dutch toy……. You style been suckin since day one WTF do you think you are blow ya self is what you need to do

  18. Brother SHOE(CIA) I have to disagree with you, Fred is fraud and a false prophet. If he had posted these new works as a compilation of other artist work and gave them credit it would have been ok… Toy but ok. After the Golden Era of Street Culture aka Hip-Hop in which Fred was instrumental to the utmost, he became a hipster that sucks off rappers and doesn’t give a ufck about graffiti. The last 15 years all he has promoted is the Rap movement. Even the so called Hip-Hop award show he produces for VH1 has nothing to do with graffiti, he even took the element off the posters. But what do you expect from a guy who perpertrates Fabulous 5 crew!?!? Just because Debbie Harry mistakingly thought he was in the crew due to his association with Lee! But like a fraud he has called himself Fab 5 Freddy for 30 plus years! Bottom line early Street Culture owes Mr. Braithwait a big thanks! It would not have evolved at the pace it did if not for him. But on the real he is no longer down since he sold out graffiti to chase the dollar with the Rap movement! If you’re not a Rapper Fred wants nothing to do with you, that’s why I’m shocked he did a graffiti show in the first place!

  19. Hey guys Easy on my man Shoe! Give him a chance to think about what he wrote. He’s a smart guy and a really good person, I’m sure in time he will get the gist of everyone’s argument… He’s not dumb. I just think his written reaction was a knee jerk to the fact that he feels new writers don’t have the pedigree to step to Fake 5 Freddy! In time I hope he sees that Fred no longer deserves his admiration. Peace to a European pioneer, my man Shoe… Take it easy graffiti community, he’ll come around.

  20. It’s funny that fab 5 catches heat from revok while at the same time revok lets that obey shit slide.

    shepard fairey steals people’s images, adds a different background and revok doesn’t make a squeak.

    weak.

    • Obey is white…duh!

      every president has done grimey shit since day 1 – obama does some grmey shit and they start a whole party with the sole purpose of hating that negro.

      whether your white, black or latino, don’t delude yourself into thinking this is any different.

      -at the same time-

      Fab is flagrant with this shit. it is bting and biting is a violation. end of story.

  21. Yeah but Fairey is open about the fact that he uses other peoples designs and augments and changes them to fit a new agenda, Fab 5 is just copying work and calling it his own without giving credit where it is do!

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  23. fairey isn’t anymore open about it than fab 5.

    they both are just taking something someone else did, changing it and passing it off as original.

  24. None

    what you’re sayin about Obey and Fab5 every Writer does (mostly in the Beginning) and it’s ok as long as it is not a complete Copy of anothers Work.
    What Fab is doin is a motherfuckin disrespcet for the bitet Writers and the whole Scene, cause he is sellin this copied Shit as his own.
    Shoe earns no Respect anymore…as a real Writer he should say the Truth, and Fake 5’s stolen Canvas are the Truth, shame on Freddy and Shoe.

    • you say every writer does it…yet “obey” is not a writer.
      you say it’s ok as long as it’s not a complete copy…do you even know the name of the person (without using google) who took that pic of obama that fairey used for his “hope” poster? you say fab 5 is disrespectful because he is sellin his copied shit…isn’t that exactly what shepard does?

      but obey gets a pass from revok since shepard hooks them up with shit.

      lames

  25. ROBEONE KDC.FC’S.NEC.DHP. F2S. : Graffiti has no rules, Real Graffiti is ILLEGAL Painting!!!!!! All You so called writers who (only )do murals and Hall off Fames is pretty work and all, BUT IT AINT GRAFFITI….It’s maybe Aerosol Art or spraycan Art. Graffiti is not even the real name, it’s called Writing, I am a Writer from Holland and I love Graffiti,..maybe Fab 5 freddy just made these canvases so everybody would start to think about this thing called Graffiti.Aerosol Art is evolving into something thats commercially accepted.Real Graffiti is still looked down at and is not accepted, I think fab 5 freddy wants to shock people, and all you aerosol artists took the bait and now you are hooked. C’mon all writers use the alphabet and we all are influenced by the writers that went before us, all we see is an influence. NO RULES THATS THE BEST AND NOBODY CAN TELL YOU WHAT TO DO!!!!! EVEN THE SO CALLED UNWRITTEN RULES DON’T APPLY TO SOME. Just give respect where it’s due!And do your research before you attack someone!

    • Quote:Graffiti has no rules,graffiti is illigal painting..

      Rule number 1,graffiti is illigal painting LOL

  26. Blatant disrespect and plagiarism… hmmm
    this stunt could be considered a joke on some level. Is he clowning
    everyone in “his” canvases? Is he trying to be ridiculing in some manner?
    It seems like a weird, odd, not so funny joke on all the artists that got
    jacked. To think that a personality of his history (Fab 5 Freddy)
    would trust some fresh out of school “photoshop idiot” to come up with his
    artwork is absolutely retarded ( i mean holy shit they are horribly designed and
    distastefully layed out). You know he didnt do that on his own. Was Fab 5
    ever even an graffiti artist? Why try to fraud it now? I dont recall seeing
    ANY of dude’s work? Canvases? Sketches?….anything?

    As far as the issue of this being “biting” is crazy. This is light
    years beyond that. He didnt “bite” an extension or color scheme he
    straight had someone scan and photoshop straight original artwork
    and in a shit way at that. Those shits are fuckin ugly and horribly executed.
    That is considered a major fuck up on any level. Copping
    pleas at this point is not going to work. The only recourse for Fab 5,
    that I can see is (if he is to be recognized as even remotely being a
    real man) to give a VERY PUBLIC apology and offer some sort of
    compensation to these guys that he jacked. I would be super pissed and
    I think Revok and Rime took it really really really light on Fab 5.
    I mean that upside down SEVER “S” was a real retarded and a horribly
    unexplainable slither (granted I havent had a chance to thoroughly examine
    all of the canvases). A solid punch to the face would not fix the wrongs
    already done here but an embarrassing lawsuit that damages any of his
    credibility in the eyes of his connects at Vh1 or Mtv might?

    Wow, the disgusting, throw up in my mouth part is just from all this alone
    made these “pieces” actually WORTH SOMETHING to some fuck-tard somewhere!

    I was just curious Fab5… If you are a king and love graffiti culture so much why have
    you not EVER showcased any graffiti artists in ANY of your award shows?? What are
    you going to do next? A rap album maybe? What are you going to do for THAT
    grand entrance? Rap Biggie’s whole album verbatim and take all the credit?

    Not for nothing papa, but you fucked up lovely regardless of who or what…

    ….over and out!

    – MR. EAZ ONE –

    PS. if you are going to respond by talking shit at least do it with a name we all can see so we may truly value your opinion… strictly kings or better!!!!

  27. shoe is a toy, never done any real shit no metal under his belt. fuck him. and you’re blind if you dont see that fabs stuff is just copied. only metal countsssssss

  28. This topic gives me the chance to set out my views about the begin days of writing in Holland. I read a few of the posts made by other dutch writers. To begin, I started writing in 1982 in the city of Rotterdam. The city was covered in tags and the writers from that era were influenced by the book ‘the faith of graffiti’. I was sociologically too far away from those writers so their influence were minimal. But then we saw glimpses from what was happening in America. intercity kids like myself from minority groups and working white class felt a connection with what we saw. Our parents were already listening to Funk and soul and checking out Blaxploitation and kung fu movies so it was natural thing.
    But their was not enough information so we were working out our own development. Most of us In rotterdam didn’t use the term Grafitti. We called ourselves painters. Only the guys with money for imported underground records ( painted sleeves!) or with cultural links ( to go to museums and galleries) had the access to information!( our family never went to museums or galleries) When guys like Dondi came to Holland they mainly hooked up with Bourgeoisie Kids and left the information with those guys. Suddenly their was a big gap between the writers. You can see this the best in the example given in Spraycan art with the two elefants. Within a year their was such a big difference in sketching en execution.
    Also the Bourgeoisie Kids had all the media connections and made a lot of appearances on television, newspapers, magazines etc. They made big bucks doing so. One of those guys his dad was one of Hollands most well known actors. I saw a program in 1985 called Jonge Helden on dutch television and I saw a crew tagging and piecing. But I couldn’t understand that those guys were writers. That broadcast set the standard in Holland!
    The funny thing about this all is that all the insecure kids looking for an idol saw these guys as originators and some of them still do! So I am very pleased that people like Joe know the truth!!! Because I am telling these fact for years to people in Holland and it seems like no one listens and the give people Shine who take other peoples style. And one of the originators of this style is the almighty Phase 2.
    You can take some one style to a next level by adding originality to it. Because all people build ideas on other peoples ideas! But I can als see that Fab 5 Freddy’s intentions are not that creative. He can sell work because of his well known name in the mass media. people who became originators work for years to find a new road.

    I like Niels as a person, and I can understand were he’s coming from. Because when guys come from America they call him and he hangs with them. And they justify him as one of the godfathers of Europe. Even when the other folks in Holland don’t. people like the CBS, TSF and Badboyz Inc. People like Dondi, Quik and Rammellzee hung with guys who hook them up with booze, drugs and pussy. Not with the dutch hustlers who I mentioned. Therefor I never had much respect how they dealt with their sociological responsibilities towards their brothas.

    In my opninion you cannot argue about art. But you can argue about intentions……………

    one love,

    Ates
    Bad boyz inc ( since 1985)

    • Nice to read, but always knew from day 0ne that other crews like Badboys TSF ABC and Marty/Vision were ‘alive’.. SO for starters: big respect 2 those originators!
      Unfortunately USA/CBS etc. were more visible and was Amsterdam like a magnet for writers as we called ourselves back then (1984 started it 4 me and from 85 more serious)..

      Why? (Aight Joe) Amsterdam is like a smalltown village and everything was walkable and easy to find… (accept Waterloo plein dungeons all spots were not dangerous and always in normal surroundings)

      Other cities Like Rotterdam and The Hague, Arnhem, Nijmegen etc. had lots of simular spots but not known for other people then locals… And how do you meet local writers in the stone age? NOT…

      So USA and all their appearences on TV set te standard 4 Amsterdam…
      But, oldskool guys never forget what Badboys is…….
      Peace!

  29. who gives a shit? Opinions and opinions and opinioooons and everybody crying because someone else thinks something else. Grow up and go paint. Shoe hero, Revok hero, blah blah…..and fuck hiphop too, I’m into metal.

  30. today’s generation ‘writers’ focus is all wrong.
    focus should be on lettering not on color and fill ins.

    15 characters, 100 colors and shading effects on a piece won’t make your wack lettering any better.

    i’d have to agree with shoe for most of what he said.

    • Kind of right..
      All that MSK airbrush shit is going nowhere indeed,its allmost like the bikes build by OCC,we call that crap kitsch…(over the top bling for nothing).
      Escpecially the arrogance displayed by Revok is a joke,that dude is the lamest fake ass
      HOF/Twitter writer there is,talking shit about a King like Shoe who did 99% of his shit illegal.
      If you take away those posers their arrows and connections,and air brush fills,you got left nothing but some wack ass lettering.

  31. It´s funny some of you are saying Shoe should take Freddie´s dick out of his mouth while they´re lining up to suck Revok´s dick. (smart thinking by Shoe cause Freddie´s dick is probably bigger and he has it all to himself) That said I think this whole situation is grossly excacurated. People are just yelling TOY left and right, most of them I´ve never heard off and they don´t know what they´re talking about. And that guy from Rotterdam just totally lost it, nobody cares about your take on Dutch graffiti history. On one hand I really like reading all this drama, on the other hand I think they should have just kept it to themselves. Like Mats said, grow up and go paint..

  32. I always liked Fab5 Freddy as a voice and face of Hip Hop , but this shit is reprehensible!!!!!
    Cheaply trying to cash in on someone elses work is breaking every code in Hip Hop/Graf ..He should be ashamed … and SHOE?!?!? I’m shocked he would put his “Shoe” in his mouth like that …
    Props to my [youngboy lol] Rime , What Msk has done for graf can’t even be measured ..The word Elevation is all that comes to mind … Tsk Tsk …..PreOne Philly Pa. Perverting the alphabet since 1984 …..

  33. Hahah…its funny that blah talkin bout penis size s….ur retarded dood..we all see scene and whos up and whos down. What is shoe doing right now???coming to ibiza ( i live there…so good)..and perform taggin over some groupies titties….in gay pubs haha!!!true that…folks look for it. Shoe has no respect and we all know the básics of Graff….keep lookin fo ya penis size blah hahha…u alredy got two….black n white lolz.

  34. most graffiti sucks balls nowadays.
    shoe needs to retire from calligraphiti and do at least a couple of stylish silvers a year to school these toys.

  35. Hahahah, yeah, real underground, the guy got arrested on the airport in Austrailia because he told everybody he was gonna be there on Twitter.. 😀

  36. Oh, and congratulations on making this a racial thing now, way to live up to the sterotypes! (by the way, you could say Shoe is Jewish)

  37. talking about graffiti..hahaha thats something only retired oldskoolers and ego-sucking assholes do.

  38. “Even though Graffiti culture was started by them.”

    some of he earliest writers who “started” it, were white. at the time, it was just convenient to only blame it on black and puerto rican people. you are perhaps confusing writing with Hip Hop. Writing began at least 10 years before what is called Hip Hop now.

    But I get your humor in all this.

    • lol @ graffiti is dead … you can’t be serious. Street art wouldn’t even exist without graffiti. Writing will never die. Without people putting in work and getting up art fags would never even bother. How many actually stay in the game? At most they pull a year or two then get some fame go into galleries and that’s it. Graffiti dead I think not. If anything graffiti is experiencing a revival come back in a decade with that prediction then we will see what’s what.

  39. I sure hope not, if you can’t make real good art…you make streetart..

    If you don’t have the balls en skills to do good graffiti..you do streetart..

    Make a better world…stop streetart!

    • I sure hope not, if you can’t make real good art…you make streetart..
      Yeah right,thats why a Seen canvas cost 500 $ and a Banksy canvas costs 500.000 $..

      If you don’t have the balls en skills to do good graffiti..you do streetart..
      Ha ha,just like you,your style is sooo fucking fresh they call you king of Zwijndrecht

      Make a better world…stop morons who write graff and think they are badass cause they put paint on a train,stupid toy,Al Capone was a real badass.

  40. It was pretty clear from the offset and I do mean going back to the eighties…that ‘Fab’ was another hanger on, a hipster parasite engraciating himself with whoever would have him hanging off the nutsack AND the first to shout the loudest on every single so called ‘culture’ programme ever since. “yeah we used to do this back in the day blah blah, train yards, me and Lee, blah blah”
    I’m sure millions of people swallowed this bullcrap at the time and ever since as he swanned around on Mtv and Blondie videos touting himself as some sort of graffiti artist.
    I don’t care if you’re a Tv presenter, I don’t give a shit if you even invented rap music, you are not and never have been a graffiti writer/artist.
    The pictures are scanned, badly mutated, thinly veiled, photoshopped pieces of garbage. Seriously this so called ‘art’ is an embarrassment to Lee and Futura, they have had to put up with this fool hanging off their coat tails for years, but WE aint buying it.
    Fab 5 big mouth show off, the epitome of talking loud and saying nothing.

  41. At the end…
    Fab5 and Sever are making very ugly graffiti.
    Sever’s stuff is beyond kitsch.

  42. they’re both morons.
    fab 5 should’ve at least stolen some good lettering.

    if i was to bite any letters, i wouldn’t bite a toy like sever cause like mentioned earlier his stuff is kitsch.

    take all the fx and coloring away from a sever piece and you’re left with a bunch of crap swirls and shitty toy letters.

  43. i think all american graffiti is fucking shit because we can hit good trains out here and we keep hitting dem gangsta ass styles over and over again. and you little pieces of shit only join gangs start taggin get arrested and then you are LOCO kanker homooos
    fuck america you dumbass redneck people.dancing around like fucking mongols when osama is dead believing those stupid fake pictures you are the wackest cancer licking autistic idiots on this planet…even fucking chinese people are cooler than you so fuck shoe an fuck whole america
    i am very king and i have money and bitches you know wa am saying holmes!?
    AMERICAN GAY FAGGOTS !!
    greets the kankerkoning

  44. you’re all a bunch of girly men, talking about this shit like it has some importance.. go and watch gossip girl you sad pricks.

    severs letters are ugly as fuck
    shoe is a faggot
    fab5s letters are ugly as fuck

    lets all choke on a dick

  45. Peace
    No disrespect to Fab 5 Freddy true Pioneer to Hip Hop Culture with Yo MTV Raps.. timeless classic shit, but my dude stay in your lane. You are trying to capitalize off of the backs of some of our modern day kings. Regardless to what some people might think graffiti is no joke, these cats don’t win off of this shit, you get arrested, beat up, killed etc.. Yes, some artist have that crossover appeal and that’s a beautiful thing, even more beautiful when they have earned it on the streets, but Fab if you know / love the culture and want to continue to be respected, then fall back and give credit where credit is due.. Revok put it our there and real spit my dude I totally see what he’s talking about, I mean the shit is blatant, and executed poorly. If you made any money off of this then break bread. Shoe I respect you as an artist and have no quarrels with what you are trying to convey about respecting pioneers and all that but yo you can’t just step to some grown men on some ol “Shut the fuck up” tip and not expect to catch some flack (where they do that at?) I know that shit don’t fly in Killa Cali.. Im just saying. 1 Love
    Suaze

  46. He..
    Revok is the Gary Glitter of graff.
    Shoe is the Angus Young of graff.
    Fab 5 is the Crusty the Clown of graff.
    Futura is the Little Richard of graff.
    Lee is the Andre the Giant of graff.

    Word 🙂

  47. The bottom line is that there was only one king at this show. That would be LEE. Freddy is a fake, and so is FUTURA, only difference is that FUTURA has developed into a decent artist..Freddy has not. Dont get me wrong, they made their contributions…in a perpetrator sort of way that is. I dont know anything about SHOE…and even less about post 89 writers. Thats not very rellevent..what is?..Freddy has been busted here…stealing art from real graf artists..that is pretty bad. If you werent in NYC painting subways in the 70’s-80’s then you wouldnt know sh-t about Fred and Futura. Most everyone here knows the real deal..those that dont are just playing art-slut politics.

  48. First…We don’t call our art “graffiti!!” that comes from a lot of brainwashed toys that are trying to be down with the program…second Fab 5 freddy didn’t have more than 2 ‘pieces running if you want to go back…The soup cans car made him famous just because he bit it from Warhol…
    I was and still am a writer, bomber, and Tagger! When I went to adventure, I went “Hitting!!!”
    Keep catering to that nonsense for we are still around…ready to correct the unseasoned…1

    • This shit needs to get deleted fast..85% of you dont deserve a forum to speak on..
      either trolls or has been train bombers clinging to fame from 30 years ago when u could chill in a yard or layup with a fuckin bbq..the has beens have no idea what its like to be a writer now..u heard mayor koch in style wars a three time repeater gets a slap on the wrist in 82’…a three time felony vandal is going to prison or worse yet charged with some terrorism bullshit..so all u oldheads shut the fuck up..futura let his man ali burn up inthe subway tunnels and ran away then fled ny like a bitch..hes a fraud..fab5 is a bitin ass joke..msk does to alot of legal legit shit but they also bomb steel highways billboards etc so fall back off there nutsacks..

      • Those Has beens you speak of You and the rest of Up-to date writers still bite from you are artist now not an don’t have no real moves so you need a forum to vent your hate.
        Sad that why don’t know nothing characters are not what we stand for…it ls the letters
        you can tell no one will learn from you that why we will always have fakes…you learn to survive the game…Nuff said…

    • Stylewacker everyone knows ur little story who gives a shit if u want to feel like a bigger man by calling urself a writer go ahead..but it hardly applies to u now does it..u sound like a bitter oldhead..fall back and what does that have to do with the fab5 argument?!?!?!

  49. Whoever wrote the TAKI 183 artical made up the word “graffiti” to call it something and the first guys to get brainwashed was the ones who ran up on that author who wrote, “Faith of Graffiti”
    He asked them, what were they doing? and they replied, Were Graffiti writers…
    Real writers know this…it is the toys that keep saying “Graffiti”….And it still lives on!
    Know what you do..and learn your history…1

  50. Stylecracker go hide under a rock for another 30 years and please come back and grace us with another eloquent history lesson..and fyi norman mailer wrote faith of graffiti…sad

  51. FAB FREUD FREDDY..This Dude is a lame, Claims that it is like “Sampling” Music. From what i know musicians still have to get sample clearance before a song is released. This dude just lost all his cool points in my book. He might think its ok around those art fags but when the real writers get at him he will remember how the South Bronx was in the 80’s. Fuck all that Train writers bullshit. Ain’t our fault we weren’t born in the 60’s and 70’s and if i was all you niggas who were would have been getting vamped. Graffiti is about progress the same way Rap music “Should” be. All that matters is that the Newer dudes show respect for the older writers who DESERVE it. Rime did a Blade piece to show respect and an IZ piece when he passed away. Fab Freud thinks its ok to act like the newer dudes don’t deserve repsct so he gets none in return and will be treated accordingly.
    JEE THE GOD…KD ,GRAFFITIS ONLY DYNASTY!

  52. now jee its not a ” graffiti dynasty” that was started by “dat dude who wrote dat taki article and dat otha dude dat wrote dat book and da media” didnt you learn anything from nut sacker….i mean style wacker whatever his name is..lol @ the dude talking about sampling you hit it right on the head hip hop music is mad toy buncha dudes talkin bout shit they never did or would ever do over stolen music..fab 5 fraudy lmao….SAD

  53. This discussion is really sad. Whining for credits about someone doing a collage using parts of your art? So what? Did you ever open an art book or fucking what? I personnaly think Freddy’s art is total shit, but acting like retarded egomaniacs is even worse. (Surprisingly enough) Jon one just said it all: Freddy redid Warhol’s Campbell soup painting (that he himself stole from campbell’s designers), did Warhol whine about that? Of course not!

  54. Word

    What a bunch of whining bitches yall all are..

    Art and artshows are for faggots in general..

    Shoe shut up about bowing down for fab 5,thats straight up bull,that dude never meant anything for graff(also the connection between hip hop and graff is bull,created by the media)..

    Revok shut up trieng to intimidate Shoe its make you look stupid (and unrespectfull, your not a bad writer but too much legals and twitter talk dont get ya streetcredits).

    Joe just stay out of this discussion,you have no clue what ya rapping bout bro..

    In the end this stupid discussion has only losers,my respect for all people involved (all good writers )has gone down a lot..
    A writer should shut the fuck up and let his work speak for him..Its not Hollywood.

    The only true king in this story is LEE..he rocked whole cars like its a day job..
    And the funny thing is that neither Revok,Joe,Rime or Shoe ever did a fucking whole car on a passenger train soooooo you whining bitches should shut up and get up,and do some whole cars you pussies.

    • msk doesnt do whole cars?!?!?!?! this guy is another naive retard…even with the heavy exposure they all have they still hit trains and do crazy illegal shit..i didnt want to turn into an msk cheerleader ..but questioning the crews integrity is wack especially since they are the VICTIMS in this debate..they got bitten and stole from and never got credited for any of it..just because nobody wants to cut and paste whatever garbage you create dont sling mud on them! you must be like 15 years old and dont remember Rime and Setup grilling jersey highways and manhattan..they all have paid some serious dues..Crab5 never paid any…period

  55. Some good points expressed here, the rest are from kids that have no clue. Thanks either way.

    Here is a response to this post from DEZIO (France / China) – “This was a lot of fun to read and I hope it continues … real entertainement 😀 I think Shoe’s oedipian complexe for this can easily be explained by the fact that although Bando and him were greatly inspired by Dondi for the letters (as were most writers from inside or outside of New York from that particular era begining 80’s), it’s Futura (and Brim) who influenced the fills and the vaporesque technique that they so widely used during their trips to europe begining 80’s (which is, come to think of it, kindof airbrushy 😀 ). Thus attacking Fab5 is like attacking Futura’s association and thus Futura as his father figure. Now you still have to give credit where it is due, Shoe and Bando really influenced the whole europeen scene from the begining and they had excelent letters structure and understanding… yet had they been born 10 years later graffiti wouldve spread just aswell by somebody else and they wouldve just joined in, influenced by whoever those writers wouldve been. Respect is not to be given because of age but because of accomplishements. And absolutly nobody should “Bow down”, it’s graffiti not a church.”

  56. Just want to add something to what I said to Joe …

    the real issue here isn’t and shouldn’t be a fight between newshool and old school, between newyork 80’s and moderntime writers. The fact that freddie bit Sever’s work is totaly irrelevent making all the comments on Sever’s work as irelevant to the discussion. Wether you like what he does or not isn’t the point. Freddie “sampled” letters from another writer withought giving him any credit or even stating that it was a “remix” is the real issue. That’s called bitig or plagerism in the artworld. I wonder what would people here have said had the letters been those of Bio? Case2? or even Zephyr?

    Now don’t get me wrong aswell, I already met freddie and he’s a nice guy. I think he has done quite a bit to promote rap and hip hop to the world, but (as someone said above) stylewriting is something that is outside of hiphop, that was started way before the term even existed. I would’ve been real disapointed to attend this show as it would have been like going to a Public Enemy concert and instead attending a lecture on watches and adidas. He shouldve stuck to passing records and being the MC everyone know him for.

  57. “Joe just stay out of this discussion,you have no clue what ya rapping bout bro..”

    @ Whining bitch

    Fab used a Rime piece in his work, from book I made, about a project I founded. Being from NYC and writing for 20 years helps too. Seems like it’s the other way around.

    • Quit crying man ..since when do graff bombers give a shit what some art fag bites.
      What probably is the point you guys dont realise is that in graff we call copieng styles “biting”
      (considered a no no) while in art they call copieng styles “pop-art” or “post-modern”,in art it is cool and accepted to bite or steal whatever the fuck you want.
      So whining about some Fab 5 stealing some styles shows that you dont know anything about modern art..

      I was saying you dont know what your talking about,since I got the feeling you have no clue how important Shoe to the development of graff is( and you seem to have studied his history a little after ,right?) If you like it or not,back in the days Shoe was as famous or even more famous then a dude like Revok is now.

      In my opinion both Revok,Shoe and others should avoid getting into a bitch fight on the internet,simply because they all make themselves look as stupid as a donkeys arse by rapping nonsense.

      • To add this..
        They should paint …do what they are good at..and avoid what they dont know shit about (talking gaga on the net)

        Shoe …rock a couple of stylish silvers..instead of getting drunk …
        Revok ..rock a couple of stylish silvers..instead of acting like a 13 year old thug

        Even better do it together..ha ha

        Peace…

  58. who is this fucken clown Shoe? perfect case of someone with no brains trying to give their worthless 2 cents

    • Shoe is the right hand of Bando and one of the founders of Euro graff,and writing since 1982.
      He did hundreds of illegal pieces in the early and mid eighties,the styles of Shoe were of a perfect quality,simple but with the most harmonic proportions ever seen.
      Whole of Europe was influenced by Bando ,Shoe and Mode 2 and around 1986 they were among the top 10 best writers in the world (yes even burning 99% of yall beloved NYC styles).
      So everyone dissing this guy simply doesnt know what he is talking about.

      Its funny that US writers are so arrogant and uninterested in whats going on in the rest of the world while their own graff scene is a dead horse (especially NYC,LA is rocking good styles at least).Not to mention the wack snitch culture,like the adoration of a retard clown named Cope 2 who is a VS informer.
      Yeah boys JA is the greatest ever,,,Ha ha ha keep dreaming…

      So who the fuck is this clown Tek?????????????

      Graff is much bigger in Europe now than it is in the US,yes it came from NY but your days are over boys.

      • wow! where to begin…1/if it wasnt for us arrogant americans you wouldnt be doing graffiti you would be goose stepping through europe with hitler bitch and that arrogant american henry chalfant decided to give your horrible graffiti some shine in spray can art otherwise nobody would give a fuck about a shoe…2/not every american writer worships cope2..he is a snitch and a self proclaimed legend..3/who are the real innovators , the ones who create and invent or the ones who improve on a formula already proven..which is all i see from european writers..go eat some snails and jump off the eiffel tower pierre

  59. @ John Quincy..

    Ahhh a frustrated yank knowing deep down that NYC is dead,over and laughed about these days,since dudes like Cope2 are representing yall city..he he

    In Europe we allready had Graffiti about 2000 to 3000 thousend years ago.The word Graffiti is Roman (you heard of them,an old European culture).

    First :you so called Americans (at least the white ones) come from Europe,he he.

    Second :the letters and language you guys use where invented in Europe (so who is improving on a formula??)

    Third :Are you trying to say that in Europe we only took what was invented in NYC and added nothing to it,just copied it…
    Well to remind you..Just to name some.

    Mode2 ,,just 1 example,there is not even 1 American that comes close to him

    Delta.. inventor of the sophisticated 3D style (yeah I know Flint did it in 1935)..(Daim is the current pupil in this style).no American even comes close.

    Moas crew..In this crew there are at least 5 people who alone painted more whole cars on subways then LEE,BLADE and SEEN combined,sorry just a fact (not to mention the other hardcore bombers from France and Germany who painted massive amounts of subways and passenger trains).

    Banksy and the rest of the street-art movement..Yes got big in Europe(and has no influence whatsoever from NYC graff),and fetching more money for one painting then all of the canvasses ever painted by Blade,Seen,Quik,and Dondi combined would get at auction..just a fact.

    These are just some examples ,I could go on for hours.

    In Europe right now as we speak there are probably between 5 to 10 times as much active writers then in the US (yes people who paint daily,not retired 70s bombers who stopped and talk yang).

    So yes you are right,NYC was the most important place in graffiti between 1972 and 1989,
    17 whole years it was the Roman empire of graff,but like I said WAS,since 1989 NYC graff is basicly over (believe me I think it is too bad that NYC is a dead horse these days,I loved the old graff from there).

    What NYC stand for today is a godamned shame,snitches like Cope2 acting as legends,painting throwies over others people pieces in a hall of fame acting like he is da badass Cap MPC.
    Legends (yes true legends) like Seen and Tkid fighting like 13 year old bitches on the internet (not even mentioning the reason what they are fighting about,The godfather of graff a police informant too??? seems very possible according to the evidence )

    So today NYC is about painting Hall Of Fames,and yapping nonsense on the internet??
    Well sleep,and dream on bro,NYC is finished,dead,over,gone,lost,
    LA is putting in more work and world-wide influence these days,so more respect to them.

    I know it is hard to accept the facts,but hey fact is fact..

    But like I said before,because you Americans are so damn nationalistic you wont even bother to study or look at anything done outside of the States,so you simply dont know what is going on here and in the rest of the world.

    If you would know as much about European graff as I do about Amercian graff,you would not talk the shit you do my friend.

    By the way the world in general is being global these days,so sticking to your garden in Rednecktown Alabamba is not gonna teach you what is going on..

    Peace and respect,,XXX

    • Ahhh a frustrated yank knowing deep down that NYC is dead,over and laughed about these days,since dudes like Cope2 are representing yall city..he he
      [ YEAH NYC WAS SUCKED DRY BY EURO TRASH FOR SO LONG IT FINALLY DIED , WELL IN YOUR SKEWERED OPINION ANYWAY…NYC DEAD?!?! I DONT THINK SO ..TOO MANY DOPE WRITERS TO EVEN NAME OR ENTERTAIN YOU WITH TOY BOY]
      In Europe we allready had Graffiti about 2000 to 3000 thousend years ago.The word Graffiti is Roman (you heard of them,an old European culture).
      [HA HA HA HA HA OH IM GETTING A HISTORY LESSON NOW ..YOU FORGOT ABOUT CAVEMEN..WHICH IS WHAT MOST EURO GRAF LOOKS LIKE IT WAS DONE BY]
      First :you so called Americans (at least the white ones) come from Europe,he he.
      [WELL IF YOU WANT TO GET TECHNICAL ALL THE LAND MASSES OF EARTH WERE ONCE CONNECTED IT WAS CALLED PANGEA ..AND FOR THE RECORD ALL HUMANITY BEGAN IN CONTINENTAL AFRICA…CAN SOMEONE SAY …SEMANTICS]
      Second :the letters and language you guys use where invented in Europe (so who is improving on a formula??)
      [THATS A VERY ARYAN WAY OF VIEWING THE WORLD …HEIL HITLER!..I GUESS NONE OF THE ANCIENT CIVILIZATIONS THAT HAD COMPLEX LANGUAGES AND ALPHABETS EVEN MATTER TO YOU NAZIS]
      Third :Are you trying to say that in Europe we only took what was invented in NYC and added nothing to it,just copied it…
      [NO MORON THATS NOT WHAT I SAID ..I SAID ALL YOU DID WAS “IMPROVE” ON AN IDEA ..THATS REALLY NOT ALL THAT GREAT IS IT ?!?!]
      Well to remind you..Just to name some.

      Mode2 ,,just 1 example,there is not even 1 American that comes close to him
      [ALL HE EVER WANTED TO BE WAS A NUDE PAINTING GALLERY FAG..MISSION ACCOMPLISHED]
      Delta.. inventor of the sophisticated 3D style (yeah I know Flint did it in 1935)..(Daim is the current pupil in this style).no American even comes close.
      [SHITS WEAK SON]
      Moas crew..In this crew there are at least 5 people who alone painted more whole cars on subways then LEE,BLADE and SEEN combined,sorry just a fact (not to mention the other hardcore bombers from France and Germany who painted massive amounts of subways and passenger trains).
      [QUANTITY NEVER TRUMPS QUALITY JACQUES]
      Banksy and the rest of the street-art movement..Yes got big in Europe(and has no influence whatsoever from NYC graff),and fetching more money for one painting then all of the canvasses ever painted by Blade,Seen,Quik,and Dondi combined would get at auction..just a fact.
      [ I WONT EVEN COMMENT ON THIS …TOO EASY]
      These are just some examples ,I could go on for hours.

      In Europe right now as we speak there are probably between 5 to 10 times as much active writers then in the US (yes people who paint daily,not retired 70s bombers who stopped and talk yang).

      So yes you are right,NYC was the most important place in graffiti between 1972 and 1989,
      [ I DONT GIVE A RATS ASS ABOUT NYC , NOT FROM THERE AND IN MY OPINION IT WAS KILLED BY BLOOD SUCKING EURO TRASH LIKE YOU]
      17 whole years it was the Roman empire of graff,but like I said WAS,since 1989 NYC graff is basicly over (believe me I think it is too bad that NYC is a dead horse these days,I loved the old graff from there).

      What NYC stand for today is a godamned shame,snitches like Cope2 acting as legends,painting throwies over others people pieces in a hall of fame acting like he is da badass Cap MPC.
      [FUCK COPE2!]
      Legends (yes true legends) like Seen and Tkid fighting like 13 year old bitches on the internet (not even mentioning the reason what they are fighting about,The godfather of graff a police informant too??? seems very possible according to the evidence )

      So today NYC is about painting Hall Of Fames,and yapping nonsense on the internet??
      Well sleep,and dream on bro,NYC is finished,dead,over,gone,lost,
      LA is putting in more work and world-wide influence these days,so more respect to them.

      I know it is hard to accept the facts,but hey fact is fact..

      But like I said before,because you Americans are so damn nationalistic you wont even bother to study or look at anything done outside of the States,so you simply dont know what is going on here and in the rest of the world.

      If you would know as much about European graff as I do about Amercian graff,you would not talk the shit you do my friend.
      [IM SORRY TO INFORM YOU NIGEL YOU DONT KNOW A DAMN THING LOL LOL LOL IF AMERICA WAS DEAD I WONDER WHY YOUR HERO FAB 5 FRAUDY DIDNT CUT AND PASTE SOME SHOE LETTERS INTO HIS CANVASES HA HA HA HA]
      By the way the world in general is being global these days,so sticking to your garden in Rednecktown Alabamba is not gonna teach you what is going on..

      Peace and respect,,XXX

      [NO RESPECT XXXX]

      • Ha ha ha..you seem to smoke to much crack..are you Cope 2??
        Since you have the same habit of writing in capitals.and using LOL LOL….

        You were not even able to prove me wrong once toy,I am really sorry for you NYC fools who still think its all about the city.

        NYC is dead sonny,just accept it or dream on..he he

        And we Euro kings rock all the fucking systems in the world,even the NYC system,since 99% of the NYC writers are to lame and chicken to go out to bomb cleans, (and also to stupid in the sense that you fools have no clue how to dodge and fool the VSQ)( exept for true legend Cope2 of course he can rock cleans without a mask since he has his homeboy Joe Riviera on the lookout and behind the video cam..he he)

        I guarantee you that NYC is one of the easiest systems to bomb,really compared to Euro systems it is actually a joke…a big joke …and NYC writers are today the laugh of the conversation.

        So be as frustrated as you want,I dont care at all.

        Peace and 1 love my dearest friend..Ha ha

      • hey moron i typed in caps so your pea sized brain could differentiate between your gibberish and my responses..i dont need capital letters to drive my point home..your a nut and your playing yourself with every word that spills out of your fish and chip hole..go suck shoes dick and finger mode2 up his ass..usa keeps creatin’ it and europe keeps on fakin it! END OF STORY LOL LOL LOL LOL….mental midget! fuck outta’ here princess diana

      • Ha Ha .
        Yeah man in NYC the streets are made of gold,and there is a rainbow over every yard with a pot of golden cans waiting for you…

        The funniest thing of this all,because you morons in NYC think your on top of the world,your development has stagnated for about 20 years,and it is laughable how you fools try to boost your weak wack graff with a braggy bigmouth attitude,while in fact the crap you toys are making is a huge joke wich rest of the world is laughing his ass of about.

        I dont mind you and your snitch icons keep believing they are all that,but the only one you guys fool are yourselves and some 12 year internet old toys.

        NYC oh what a pity,,, how low can you go..how deep can you fall

        PS your misunderstanding of European culture only proves how uneducated and dumb you are my friend,it only proves my point that you guys are living in the stone age.
        Ha ha ha ha..

      • What a good InternetTroll we have here. Last time he said he was from Alabama, after that he said he was from Europe, now he calls himself King of NY. It seems that some have good fun here !

    • I AM A GRAFFITI WRITER FROM THE SUBWAYS IN THE 80’S
      & AS SAD AS IT IS TO SAY I MUST AGREE WITH YOU ALL THE WAY NYC IS A SAD CASE & COPE2 IS A RAT WITH NO ARTISTIC ABILITY
      THE CITY IS A BUFF THE WRITERS PULL BITCH ASS MOVES
      AND FOR THIS I AM SORRY I HAVE NEVER FLEW CROKKED IN MY LIFE & AM STILL OUT THERE DOING WHAT I CAN AS 1 MAN TO KEEP IT ALIVE
      MY WORK IS CUT OUT FOR ME THAT COPE2 SET NYC BACK A HUNDRED YEARS WITH HIS YELLOW BELLY COWARD GET RICH QUICK SCAMSSSSSSSS

  60. just saying.

    I have to admit whining bitch is kind of right,I live in New York and writing over here is almost dead and there is no leading writers any more,of course there is a couple of bombers here but all they do is just trow ups.

    I have been to Europe many times and had exhibitions in numerous galleries over there,and the truth is that even small towns over there have a more interesting graff scene than New York has these days,you see trains running everywhere with good pieces on them,in Hall of fames you see 15 year old kids painting the freshest photo realistic stuff you have ever seen,all of Europe is bombed heavily,what can I say they rule the graffiti culture.

    I can understand it is hard for the people from New York to admit that they are slacking,but better see the truth then dreaming on a cloud.

    Word the King

    • King of Alabama/Europe/NYcity… Hmmm…what else ? Next time you will be Underground Bamako ? Queen of Tokyo ?

    • NEW YORK CITY TAKES NO SHIT EVERYTHING GETS BUFFED FAST REAL FAST THATS WHY THERES ONLY TAGS & THROWS BECAUSE ANYTHING ELSE IS JUST A WASTE OF TIME

  61. Did Fab 5 ever respond to getting caught? If so, what did he have to say..? Always questioned his authenticity but didn’t really think much one way or the other.. Every interview he gives for the past 20 years are nearly identical about name dropping the same few people – Herring, Blondie, Lee, etc.. I love YO!, but now I realize he’s an expert scenster/politicker – much like many of the people in the ‘downtown scene’ in NYC today.. Revok/Rime – good looks calling out the extreme violation.. It’s good to see people speaking their mind publicly rather than just complaining in private. I’m waiting for someone big in the “hip-hop world” to pull Puffy’s card along similar means for taking Hip-Hop for a major turn for the worst in the late 90’s..

    Happy painting!

    • FAB 5 FREDDY TOOK THE NAME ”WILD STYLE ”’ AND MADE MONEY OFF IT WITH THAT MOVIE & POOR ”’TRACY 168 ;”” BEEN TRIED LAW SUITES ON TOP OF LAW SUITES AGAINST FREDDY BUT DIDINT WIN THE COURT OF LAW SHAFTED ”TRACY 168 ”’
      FREDDY SCREWED TRACY 168 OVER & IS NOT EVEN IN ‘WILD STYLE CREW ”’

  62. i found revok’s post shocking. Fab 5 should know better. yet on the other side of the coin, i support sample culture, whether it be music or art oriented. If SEVER was a corporation, Fab5 would have his ass sued in court. either way, FAB5FREDDY is a biter because a “KING” exhibiting with LEE and FUTURA should be able to rock his own style. He’s not even sampling “old school” images, which might have made more sense. These are the issues of OUR times. Is the artist inherently the owner? the internet allows us to share and disseminate information, but also gives the culture an opportunity to police itself. i say bravo to RIME and REVOK for speaking their mind and backing up claims with photos and thoughtful reflections. peace.

  63. who gives a fuck.. youre all a bunch of faggots bitching bout graffiti
    on a website you did this, you bit that. i bet you bit a whole lot of shit when you first started
    writing and you didnt sign off with the writers name next to it and your intentions..
    your shits gay anyway.. all of you.. msk.. mad overated shit…
    yawn… stay in the states fuckwits

    • oh no another eurotrash fuck running his mouth..your gonna compare a young toy copying a seen piece to a man in his 40’s stealing artwork?!?!?! Do they have schools in europe? because im reading things that make no sense at all …too many amsterdam space cakes and fish n chips.what govnaa

  64. Revok and msk do horrible graffiti.
    Fab5 freddy… who cares.
    Shoe used to do good graffiti but is a dick.
    Cope2 is a snitch.
    Futura is boring.
    Lee rules!

  65. I think the thing weighed on both sides … fred really blew it bad … worse by not justify throwing letters about his intention of artists in their work without even giving credit to them … see if he’s sleeping quiet as all discuss … I saw a post about the fact Sever, I would like to see his opinion on this, because it is an incredible artist …. but I saw many people taking their pain, that even with clear why the proportion of the fact. But worst of all was to see jon and rime discussing and putting their talents into question by a fact which the author does not bother to pronounce. I think the greatness of the artists in question would be easier to direct a question to those involved that Fred himself on what to do with Europe and USA to increase the differences among the graffiti, as both have their part in history. Who was Fred missed, but ultimately the battle is brewing with other artists!
    Ensone_TPA BNA KD

  66. “Futura was in the army when writing really developed and he decided to start again as basically an old man.”

    An old man? he was probably younger than most of the folk painting nowadays (and commenting here!) i.e. MSK crew, MOAS, Can 2 , etc etc most folk are in there 30’s nowadays many over 40. It’s true that most of the writers hitting the subways in NYC were young kids and the career of a writer was short Futura got up in the 70’s and came back in the 80’s with a style that went on to influence the majority of styles post NYC Groundbreaking stuff not only that he opened up the ideas of Hip Hop culture to parts of Europe via the Clash stop Futura bashing he’s done more than any of you airbrushes out there .

    Oh Yeah nobody pointed out that Bando (one of Shoes partners in crime) was hanging out in NYC early 80’s learning styles from Bear 167 and T Kid this rubbed of on nearly every European from London to Helsinki . So European styles for the most part were built on a NYC foundation of style not just any style the styles of Dondi and The Death Squad gets no better than that in my book.

    I always wonder what is going on with that MSK LA style i don’t get it other than it being rendered with spray cans style wise i see none of the roots of graffiti writing in it maybe the older 80’s guys like Charlie, Dream or Relm come to mind but that new Glam graff by MSk reminds me more of ELO Bachman Turner Overdrive all the instruments are playing on full blast but it sounds shit .

    Americans need to stop thinking about Graffiti as some sort of American pastime like it belongs to America, Graffiti started in Philly Moved to NYC and developed into an amazing art form on the subways practiced by every culture living in New York period end of story anything after that is Global and it will lead you to Europe where 99% of the development of Writing happened not L.A sorry to say.

    Fab 5 exactly he is on some Modern Art tip and really stopped being relevent to writing after wild Style.

    Keep arguing Fuckos and L.A keep painting that ELO Bachman Turner Overdrivel style one day it may evolve into a good style !

  67. Surely freddie can talk for himself? No disrespect to shoe but what the fuck has it got 2 do with you?

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  70. Has Freddie ever replied? Has he made any money on this “art”? Seems to me like his lack of a reply is the loudest voice in the room.

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  72. Fake 5 Freddy .

    I once read or heard somewhere that he actually said he WAS Stay High 149 while Stay High was locked away, then got called out by the source of where I read this. (Sorry, for got the source. I think it was The Source Magazine or something.)

    Since then, I knew him to be an imposter. He’s in it for the money and fame, heeee lame.

  73. This is not the only thing that lame fuck Fab 5 Freddy lied about! I hope he get’s sued!! HE’S A BIG ASS LIAR!! PLAN AND SIMPLE!

  74. RD357
    FAB 5 FREDY TOOK ‘TRACY 168” CREW NAMED ”WILD STYLE ” MADE ALOT OF MONEY OFF IT AND EVEN GOT IT COPY WRITEN
    TRACY 168 AINT SEE A PENNY OF THE $$$ FREDDY MADE AND ”’TRACY 168 CANT EVEN OWN HIS OWN COPY WRITE TO IT ”””’TRACY 168 EVEN LOST LAW SUITE

  75. RD357
    FAB 5 FREDY TOOK ‘TRACY 168” CREW NAMED ”WILD STYLE ” MADE ALOT OF MONEY OFF IT AND EVEN GOT IT COPY WRITEN
    TRACY 168 AINT SEE A PENNY OF THE $$$ FREDDY MADE AND ”’TRACY 168 CANT EVEN OWN HIS OWN COPY WRITE TO IT ”””’TRACY 168 EVEN LOST LAW SUITE after law suite

    fuck fab 5 freddddy

  76. This is really the thread of un-famous wannabe haters…ya’ll make me laugh. Without Fab and Futura and a few others none of this graf shit would even be on the map. Ungrateful little bitches. I don’t see Sever complaining, he knows what Fab 5 Freddy’s contribution is. STFU!!

  77. Though i totally agree with you & think that you answered Shoe real good.
    isnt what Fab did a sort of paraphrase?
    And isnt it like writers using comicbook characters in a piece?
    Rarely you see any writer give cred then.
    It is a lil bit of a paradox, isnt it?

    Just saying..

  78. Much as I respect my man Shoe, Fab 5 has clearly copied the letters from Joe and Sever and rehashed them into whack photoshop digital printouts… Not impressive at all, it is simply fraud and of a low quality to boot! If he had real talent he would sketch his own outlines…

  79. shit talking revolving around paint that comes out of a can when you press it with your finger sounds like bullshit to me. Fab was a naughty boy I bet he would nick the sugar out of you’re tea.

  80. Fuck you all! Only respect the real Bombers! I don’t care if it’s Shoe, JersyJoe, Fab5Freddy or Revok and what you did in the past….now all of them are art fags, go and fuck yourself in the gallery! What a fucked up discussion… it’s just about your egos!….but that’s very close to graff, I guess…so, fuck you all, one love to all the guys kickin’ it without talking so much! Peace!

  81. Come on, don’t y’all know that the basis of most of Fab 5 Freddy’s work is interpolation – his most famous piece is the Campbells Soup can train bomb which y’all obviously know is an Andy Warhol print. Look at it this way, it’s like sampling a record and making a new track. You wouldn’t have had very much hip-hop, jungle or breaks without breakbeats from soul records. I don’t hear you calling pretty much every hip-hop artist ever ‘biters’. Hell they even use verses from other peoples records. It’s usually done out of respect.

  82. Super late here but I too have ambiguous feelings about Fab 5 Freddy. There was a time in life I considered him a friend, we use to hang and run around the downtown clubs in the late 80’s. Freddy to my knowledge was never a member of the Fabulous 5 just a groupie/fanboy. He never really wrote Graf and Lee supposedly did his famous soup can car for him as well as the piece he had in midtown. Freddy was never really a MC just a clown who made a record early that kind of caught on ( Change The Beat) Freddy was a hustler dead up nothing wrong with that but lets be real thats what he was. The legend is that Freddy once tried to pass himself off as Slave Fab 5 at NOGA way back in the 70’s as I was told by my OG Team GO. It all makes sense that he ripped of Sever his sense of entitlement is obvious.

    He has been perpetuating a myth that he helped discover Queen Latifah for 25 + years when in actuality he was trying to middle man a situation between Mark The 45 King and myself when I worked at Tommy Boy records as an A and r man in the late 80’s when I signed her.He had zilch to do with anything except sitting in on a 3 way phone convo with 45 King and myself hoping to glom on to a check which he never got. There is his hustler nature right? Nothing wrong with that but lets call it like it is.

    Freddy also lied to my face a few times.Most recently about 5 years ago. We bumped into each other out one night and started rapping and exchanged numbers it had been some years since we spoke. I had checked him for forgetting to say what up 1 too many times when he thought he was being fabulous, gassed on that MTV juice and then suddenly giving me a industry hug when he saw me with Everlast one night. I had to remind him it wasn’t a Woodstock moment and “To save the industry hugs for someone who gave a fuck” and things had been awkward since then. Anyways after bumping into dude I figured let bygones be bygones right? Wrong actually. Giving him the benefit of the doubt was not the best chess move I ever made.

    I hit hit him up a few days after I saw him. After catching up and chatting about maybe putting him in Mass Appeal ( I was writing for them at the time) I asked him if he could help me score a ticket for the VH-1 Hip Hop Honors. The Beasties were being honored and I wanted to go. He told me he would hook it up and I believed he would after all bygones were bygones right?. I hit him again a week or so later and he stalled me out. I reached out yet again a few days before the gig and he said ” D I can’t hook you fam. I really really tried but my hands are tied I just can’t swing it.”
    I thought this sucked I mean was he not helping produce the event? . I then I woke up and said to myself shit why don’t I hit up The Beasties they can probably hook it right? So I did. My man Mike D came through with some VIP shit for me plus one and I went. But wait it gets better.

    At the event I bumped into Freddy backstage. He looked like he saw a ghost. He was like “Yo I tried to bless you kid, glad you got hooked. He then told me he went hard for me and claimed “I even hit up The Beasties to try to plug you”. Lets just say that i was offended at his bare face lie, shit got me tight. I had to put him on blast and told him point blank “Yo thats so craze, cause Mike D blessed me with these” pointing to my VIP laminate. He looked dumb nervous and honestly I had a look on my face that should have made him nervous. I wanted to choke his lying ass. I backed off and told him that shit was lame and not to be nervous after all we were in a public setting. I had to getaway from him before I lost my shit. Lying to my face and then some. That shits never forgive action in my book.

    Why do I tell these tales? Cause they are testaments to the mans character or lack of shall I say. I have known the man almost 30 years. I helped get him one of his first video director gigs Talking All That Jazz for Stetsasonic. I plugged homie into a gang of shit and honestly when he was riding high on that MTV juice I saw him get super gassed. It’s just his was always was. The dudes sense of entitlement and self centered nature defines him and stealing from Sever and Yes 2 just further confirms it. Did he help bring uptown downtown? Yes he did and I respect that. Yes he was a key in the cultural exchange that occurred in NY in the late 70’s and early 80’s no denying it. Yes he showed at the Fun Gallery along people like Dondi and Futura. He was a scenester and hustler, someone who had a great sense of what was truly culturally important at the time. Hats off to that, but it doesn’t give you the right to rip anyone off, to be high on your own gas or to lie to someones face. That stuff is all the stuff chumps do, not he actions of a real OG end of story.

    Like I like to say “It is what it ain’t” and that sentiment describes Freddy Brathwaite to a T.

    Dante Ross
    Hip Hop Schmuck
    System One RTW
    NYC

  83. Revok , Saber , among many other L.A. based writers have been biting cholo style lettering for years. Lets be ” REAL ” here. This is something that Saber admits to doing. What they did was apply those letters to graffiti/writing. Lets tell the truth !!! So if anybody is getting pissed , it should be some ese’s !

  84. Pingback: SUBLIMINAL PROJECTS | 12ozProphet

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